Curse

spray04 · Mar 25, 2011, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missy Dubourde

I don't think you understood the point of what I was trying to say. My point is, I'm trying to get away from using discord. I was looking for suggestions on the builds I had come up with. Reading a post about having three discord heroes won't really help me much with that, now will it?

How bout the part that tells you to move the dam rezzes away from healers, still too hard to understand?

Missy Dubourde · Mar 25, 2011, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Does it really matter? I barely ever have to rez anyway.

Dusk_ · Mar 26, 2011, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

I love this post. It's funny how some people already think in a GW2 manner (those who love Discordway not because of discord but because of the versatility of each bar), and how some people stick on the old fashioned way: tank/healer/DPS (or at least dedicated healer/DPS).

Yes, a monk for example will most of the time do better at healing than 2 necros with half a healer's bar each. But the thing is... Most of the teams now have up to 30 minions (or even more sometimes), 10 spirits, s*** loads of protection skills (SoYG, ToF, SY!, not to mention the Prot line), so how often do your heroes need to be healed? Yes, sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't. If you bring a dedicated healer, what will he do then when nobody needs a heal? Nothing. You've just wasted a slot. 2 heroes with a hybrid bar instead will use their offensive skills.

Context. The point wasn't "OMG, dedicated healer". It's that there were 4 bars doing the same thing, wasting about 300+ attribute points, when you could take half of those and use it for something else.

There's plenty of reasons to run two hybrids instead of one dedicated healer. 2x Discord, two Minion skills and two curses isn't one of them.

(Also, I'd love to see your screenshots of 30+ minions, in any area that isn't a joke)

Quote:

PS: What's the deal with AotL? It's crap on heroes: they can't use it properly, and basically, the only advantage it has is it gives you +1 Death Magic.

I run it mostly for speed, and because it maintains minions better than any other skill. You run Heroes, your MM is going to be the character slowing down your entire run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

About "massive AOE damage," others have refuted it very well already. It's funny how people are talking like their "AOE damage" builds hit everything with the power of discords at the same time. What are these elites you guys have in mind? RoJ? Searing Flames? Barrage? Please....... I'd get another mesmer with ESurge if I had mercs, but let's not make comparisons with merc setups.

One RoJ hitting 3 times on only two targets (Heroes will aim at multiples unless you're calling) is equal to 3 shots of Discord - and you'll get those 3 hits even without snares. Smite Condition and Smite Hex are usable with almost every mob in the game, and will usually hit for more total than a Discord. Granted, I wouldn't recommend using a Smiter monk unless you're a Melee frontliner - but if you are, SoH will deal more effective DPS than Discord as well.

Second copies of Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage won't overlap, and are better damage dealers than Discord.

Throw some spears on your spirit spammers and yourself, maybe bring a Paragon, and voila, you can use an Orders Necro - also more DPS than Discord.

Hell, I'd say Ravenous Gaze will deal more effective DPS, unless you're actively microing all your Discords.

spray04 · Mar 26, 2011, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Hell, I'd say Ravenous Gaze will deal more effective DPS, unless you're actively microing all your Discords.

You just lost all credibility when you hit this point. Also, please go learn what the terms "spiking" and "recharge" mean.

Dusk_ · Mar 26, 2011, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

You just lost all credibility when you hit this point. Also, please go learn what the terms "spiking" and "recharge" mean.

Seriously? Discord hits once every 3 seconds, if your Heroes actually prioritize it. They don't. Once every 5 seconds is probably your average bet, if even. That's 200 damage every 10 seconds.

Ravenous Gaze needs to hit 4 targets to match that...and with Nearby radius, it's doable. You only need 2 hits to match the per-hit cast damage as well.

Smite Condition and Smite Hex are both Area range, meaning it's a joke to get them to hit multiple targets, especially if you're a front liner. Smite Condition: 3 hits = Absolute optimized Discord spam in DPS. Smite Hex is 3.5...and unlike Discord, they actually have additional utility.

Splinter Weapon, absolutely no comparison. Just a single adjacent enemy, and you have higher DPS. That's it. Ancestor's Rage, 3 enemies = optimized Discord, 2 enemies = C+Space Discord.

RoJ is a different beast entirely, but if you bother to do any grouping, almost nothing beats it.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 26, 2011, 03:44 AM // 03:44

If one more person suggest that Splinter Weapon is a good reason to bring a Paragon I'm going to choke a small animal. Please don't make me do it.

majoho · Mar 26, 2011, 07:37 AM // 07:37

I actually bring a paragon with Splinter Weapon sometimes, but please leave the little animals alone

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 26, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

That's fine, but some people seem to think a copy of Splinter Weapon on your bars means you HAVE to run a Paragon. *facepalm*

Sir Mad · Mar 26, 2011, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

*snip*

Yeah, so you're basically saying that the only real advantage of this skill is to have +1 Death Magic, which is what I'm saying since the beginning...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk

*snip*

Don't get me wrong: my comment about the healers/DPS was not directed to you - that was more a general consideration.

Concerning the "30 minions" part, I said "up to".

However, yeah, there are places where you can come close to this number, like Factions missions, or some EotN dungeons. But I agree it's harder in elite areas, with a few exceptions (like some parts of FoW - the Burning Forest for example).

Outerworld · Mar 26, 2011, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

That's fine, but some people seem to think a copy of Splinter Weapon on your bars means you HAVE to run a Paragon. *facepalm*

You don't have to run a para when you have splinter but they're alot more reliable than the minions.

Daesu · Mar 26, 2011, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Yeah, so you're basically saying that the only real advantage of this skill is to have +1 Death Magic, which is what I'm saying since the beginning...

Of course not. Read the skill description.

Quote:

All corpses within earshot are exploited and you animate a level 1...14...17 bone horror plus one for each corpse exploited in this way. For 5...37...45 seconds, your Death Magic attribute is increased by +1.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aura_of_the_lich

Sir Mad · Mar 26, 2011, 05:25 PM // 17:25

OK, I give up. You win. ><

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 26, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

You don't have to run a para when you have splinter but they're alot more reliable than the minions.

Nobody runs martial weapons anymore?

Sir Mad · Mar 26, 2011, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Well I hope martial professions characters still do.

At least I do with my ranger - Splinter + Barrage or Incendiary Arrows and Volley is deadly (and I'm actually the main source of AoE damage with my heroes).

Outerworld · Mar 26, 2011, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Nobody runs martial weapons anymore?

Again a ranged hero will be more reliable than melee hero, although dervs may be ok I can't say I've tried them tbh.

HigherMinion · Mar 26, 2011, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Nobody runs martial weapons anymore?

Slot of casters use spears with either foci/shields. Splinter gets thrown on these players and you can autoattack for some lol0att damage.

Dzjudz · Mar 26, 2011, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Again a ranged hero will be more reliable than melee hero, although dervs may be ok I can't say I've tried them tbh.

Martial =/= melee. Martial weapons include spears. What he meant was sticking spears on caster heroes. I have 3 of 7 heroes equipped with spears, could change it to 4 though.

Outerworld · Mar 26, 2011, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Martial =/= melee. Martial weapons include spears. What he meant was sticking spears on caster heroes. I have 3 of 7 heroes equipped with spears, could change it to 4 though.

My mistake but still, they should be casting most of the time instead rather than auto-attacking enough for splinters effect to be useful